Shawn Bailey, a better educated society is to the benefit of everyone. The issue is who should pay for it. K-12 education is taxpayer-funded, however, some people pursue private schooling or educating their kids at home. To be blunt, if someone went to a 4 year college and just partied, that person deserves to be the one who bears the cost.
What is also absurd is the lack of rational argument for college being tuition-free. If economic arguments were made as to the benefits of college being tuition-free, I would let those slide. What rubs me the wrong way is when people who signed up for student loans want to abdicate their responsibility to those loans. If someone signs up for too much debt, I would not have an issue with debt relief to some extent if the person pursued a useful degree.
Shawn Bailey, a better educated society is to the benefit of everyone.
We agree on something.
The issue is who should pay for it.
There’s really only two ways to approach this – one is the student pays for it, and the other is the government pays for it. The first experiment is already ongoing. A 17 year old with no adult life experience and little sense asks for thousands of dollars and the government hands it over. The student graduates and realizes the American Dream they’ve been fed since birth is bullshit. Their intellectual prowess is put to work at the local hardware store. They can’t pay back the loans. They can’t buy houses. They can’t do anything. This method, as demonstrated, does not work. The second method is basically a crowdfunded project (taxes). Everybody in the U.S. chips in a little and everybody gets to go to college. There are about nine countries that already do this. They have somehow managed to not go broke.
K-12 education is taxpayer-funded, however, some people pursue private schooling or educating their kids at home.
You’ve simply made three rather obvious statements here. I don’t see an argument or supporting reasons so I’m not sure I follow. But you have pointed out something – K through 12 is free. Paid for by the government. Should these people be paying their own way as well? If not, why?
To be blunt, if someone went to a 4 year college and just partied, that person deserves to be the one who bears the cost.
This is the much recycled, Welfare Queen myth in another form. The idea that there’s all these free loading, do nothing, lazies that are parasitic with respect to the hard working, deserving citizens. And by the way, you can party your ass off and still get good grades, so I’m not sure what you are trying to argue here. Maybe that people who don’t take college seriously and get bad grades should pay? But how to know this? What if they take it very seriously, but still make bad grades? Where is this secret, super-ethical, evenly judgmental committee that will decide whether someone applied themselves to their full potential? You?
What is also absurd is the lack of rational argument for college being tuition-free.
It’s simple. I’ll do it in one sentence. The world is better off with a more educated populace, so higher education should be accessible to everyone. But let’s turn your question around. I’ll ask you: where is a rational argument for college tuition costing tens of thousands of dollars?
If economic arguments were made as to the benefits of college being tuition-free, I would let those slide.
My initial argument was indeed, economically related, saying that we could use some military money for education. But what about another argument? That regardless of the costs, we shouldn’t be a nation of idiots? The world is already laughing at us. The fattest, stupidest people on the planet yelling they’re number one. Idiocracy manifest. We have Qanon nuts in our government. And they have plenty of followers. We have people that think, after 59 elections with no question of integrity, that some deep state cabal has managed to undermine the presidential elections of the United States. They tune in to a pillow salesman for info. Follow a man who said Sandy Hook didn’t happen. Believe the Earth is flat. 5G spreads Covid. Kneeling at a football game is sacrilegious but beating a cop to death with an American Flag while trying to overturn an election is patriotic. 40% of Americans have lost their fucking minds. If college was free, would we be in the same situation? I don’t think so.
What rubs me the wrong way is when people who signed up for student loans want to abdicate their responsibility to those loans.
Have you ever tried walking into a bank, with no collateral, no income, and no work experience, and asked the loan officer for a $100,000 loan? They would laugh you out of the bank. Yet the federal government approves these loans all day long for seniors in high school. Does this make sense? No. It doesn’t. They’re throwing money at people and creating a mountain of debt, a large portion of which, they know students will never be able to repay. This is an insane practice. Sure, you should pay back loans, but these loans should never be made in the first place. Students shouldn’t be put into the position of either going in debt for life to afford ridiculous tuition fees and a chance at success, or be imprisoned in the same hometown factory for life. My point is that kids just out of high school aren’t seasoned enough to make a $100,000 life choice, and they shouldn’t have to. Especially when the choice is – Hey, would you rather have a shot at a better quality of life and go into debt for the chance, or work at a McDonald’s drive through for the next 10 years. That’s not a choice.
If someone signs up for too much debt, I would not have an issue with debt relief to some extent if the person pursued a useful degree.
Conditional empathy. I love it. You can have food stamps, but only if you buy certain foods. Don’t go buying shrimp or steak for special occasions. You can have unemployment, but we’re going to drug test you. Don’t be smoking some weed to take the edge off. You can have debt relief, if you pick a certain degree. Again, where is this super-ethical, evenly judgmental committee that gets to decide all this? You?
When last I checked, we have a$20, 000, 000, 000, 000.00+ level of debt, as well as the issue of unfunded and underfunded liabilities. Until all of that has been resolved, I really don’t give a damn about bowing to the demands of people for free stuff.
My knee-jerk liberal reaction where I stereotype you:
I posit free education as a possibility and suddenly you’re our nation’s accountant. Calm down. The debt has always risen and will never be paid off, but we still have to budget our money and decide where it is best spent. My argument is that we should spend our money educating our populace instead of pouring it into the military. You know, empathy and smarts vs. “fuck your feelings” stickers and screaming in the weight room.
And your statement makes it sound like you might be open to a free education if we somehow paid off trillions in debt. I don’t think that’s true. I would wager that people getting anything for free irritates you. Not just education, but anything they didn’t work harder than you to get. Otherwise, it’s a handout, right? That ol’ slap-in-the-face to The Protestant Work Ethic. But the difference between lazy people getting handouts for nothing, and good hard workers receiving their due always seems to correlate with exactly who is getting the money.
So my question for you is: did you cash your stimulus checks? I mean, that’s a government handout. You’re not taking government handouts, are you?
My back to the actual issue, more measured reaction:
Simple question – Would the country be in better shape if everyone was more educated? If your answer is no, then we’re done talking. I mean really, where to take the conversation from there? If yes, then shouldn’t everyone, regardless of their situation, be afforded a continuing education, without going into debt for the rest of their life?
They’re both necessary. We know this. But would the country be in better shape spending a little less on the military and more on education?
Shawn Bailey, if tuition-free college is doable without adding more to the national debt, I would support it. The problem is in whether people who go would use college as a learning experience or as license to party.
The Bailey Daily 
Shawn Bailey, a better educated society is to the benefit of everyone. The issue is who should pay for it. K-12 education is taxpayer-funded, however, some people pursue private schooling or educating their kids at home. To be blunt, if someone went to a 4 year college and just partied, that person deserves to be the one who bears the cost.
What is also absurd is the lack of rational argument for college being tuition-free. If economic arguments were made as to the benefits of college being tuition-free, I would let those slide. What rubs me the wrong way is when people who signed up for student loans want to abdicate their responsibility to those loans. If someone signs up for too much debt, I would not have an issue with debt relief to some extent if the person pursued a useful degree.
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I’ll answer each separately.
Shawn Bailey, a better educated society is to the benefit of everyone.
We agree on something.
The issue is who should pay for it.
There’s really only two ways to approach this – one is the student pays for it, and the other is the government pays for it. The first experiment is already ongoing. A 17 year old with no adult life experience and little sense asks for thousands of dollars and the government hands it over. The student graduates and realizes the American Dream they’ve been fed since birth is bullshit. Their intellectual prowess is put to work at the local hardware store. They can’t pay back the loans. They can’t buy houses. They can’t do anything. This method, as demonstrated, does not work. The second method is basically a crowdfunded project (taxes). Everybody in the U.S. chips in a little and everybody gets to go to college. There are about nine countries that already do this. They have somehow managed to not go broke.
K-12 education is taxpayer-funded, however, some people pursue private schooling or educating their kids at home.
You’ve simply made three rather obvious statements here. I don’t see an argument or supporting reasons so I’m not sure I follow. But you have pointed out something – K through 12 is free. Paid for by the government. Should these people be paying their own way as well? If not, why?
To be blunt, if someone went to a 4 year college and just partied, that person deserves to be the one who bears the cost.
This is the much recycled, Welfare Queen myth in another form. The idea that there’s all these free loading, do nothing, lazies that are parasitic with respect to the hard working, deserving citizens. And by the way, you can party your ass off and still get good grades, so I’m not sure what you are trying to argue here. Maybe that people who don’t take college seriously and get bad grades should pay? But how to know this? What if they take it very seriously, but still make bad grades? Where is this secret, super-ethical, evenly judgmental committee that will decide whether someone applied themselves to their full potential? You?
What is also absurd is the lack of rational argument for college being tuition-free.
It’s simple. I’ll do it in one sentence. The world is better off with a more educated populace, so higher education should be accessible to everyone. But let’s turn your question around. I’ll ask you: where is a rational argument for college tuition costing tens of thousands of dollars?
If economic arguments were made as to the benefits of college being tuition-free, I would let those slide.
My initial argument was indeed, economically related, saying that we could use some military money for education. But what about another argument? That regardless of the costs, we shouldn’t be a nation of idiots? The world is already laughing at us. The fattest, stupidest people on the planet yelling they’re number one. Idiocracy manifest. We have Qanon nuts in our government. And they have plenty of followers. We have people that think, after 59 elections with no question of integrity, that some deep state cabal has managed to undermine the presidential elections of the United States. They tune in to a pillow salesman for info. Follow a man who said Sandy Hook didn’t happen. Believe the Earth is flat. 5G spreads Covid. Kneeling at a football game is sacrilegious but beating a cop to death with an American Flag while trying to overturn an election is patriotic. 40% of Americans have lost their fucking minds. If college was free, would we be in the same situation? I don’t think so.
What rubs me the wrong way is when people who signed up for student loans want to abdicate their responsibility to those loans.
Have you ever tried walking into a bank, with no collateral, no income, and no work experience, and asked the loan officer for a $100,000 loan? They would laugh you out of the bank. Yet the federal government approves these loans all day long for seniors in high school. Does this make sense? No. It doesn’t. They’re throwing money at people and creating a mountain of debt, a large portion of which, they know students will never be able to repay. This is an insane practice. Sure, you should pay back loans, but these loans should never be made in the first place. Students shouldn’t be put into the position of either going in debt for life to afford ridiculous tuition fees and a chance at success, or be imprisoned in the same hometown factory for life. My point is that kids just out of high school aren’t seasoned enough to make a $100,000 life choice, and they shouldn’t have to. Especially when the choice is – Hey, would you rather have a shot at a better quality of life and go into debt for the chance, or work at a McDonald’s drive through for the next 10 years. That’s not a choice.
If someone signs up for too much debt, I would not have an issue with debt relief to some extent if the person pursued a useful degree.
Conditional empathy. I love it. You can have food stamps, but only if you buy certain foods. Don’t go buying shrimp or steak for special occasions. You can have unemployment, but we’re going to drug test you. Don’t be smoking some weed to take the edge off. You can have debt relief, if you pick a certain degree. Again, where is this super-ethical, evenly judgmental committee that gets to decide all this? You?
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Shawn Bailey, I will mind my manners, however, I am enjoying your blog.
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Tuition-free college incurs costs to taxpayers.
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As shown above, so does our ridiculous military budget.
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When last I checked, we have a$20, 000, 000, 000, 000.00+ level of debt, as well as the issue of unfunded and underfunded liabilities. Until all of that has been resolved, I really don’t give a damn about bowing to the demands of people for free stuff.
LikeLike
My knee-jerk liberal reaction where I stereotype you:
I posit free education as a possibility and suddenly you’re our nation’s accountant. Calm down. The debt has always risen and will never be paid off, but we still have to budget our money and decide where it is best spent. My argument is that we should spend our money educating our populace instead of pouring it into the military. You know, empathy and smarts vs. “fuck your feelings” stickers and screaming in the weight room.
And your statement makes it sound like you might be open to a free education if we somehow paid off trillions in debt. I don’t think that’s true. I would wager that people getting anything for free irritates you. Not just education, but anything they didn’t work harder than you to get. Otherwise, it’s a handout, right? That ol’ slap-in-the-face to The Protestant Work Ethic. But the difference between lazy people getting handouts for nothing, and good hard workers receiving their due always seems to correlate with exactly who is getting the money.
So my question for you is: did you cash your stimulus checks? I mean, that’s a government handout. You’re not taking government handouts, are you?
My back to the actual issue, more measured reaction:
Simple question – Would the country be in better shape if everyone was more educated? If your answer is no, then we’re done talking. I mean really, where to take the conversation from there? If yes, then shouldn’t everyone, regardless of their situation, be afforded a continuing education, without going into debt for the rest of their life?
They’re both necessary. We know this. But would the country be in better shape spending a little less on the military and more on education?
LikeLike
Shawn Bailey, if tuition-free college is doable without adding more to the national debt, I would support it. The problem is in whether people who go would use college as a learning experience or as license to party.
LikeLike